Meidogger oerlis:Skeelsjen

Hoi Skeelsjen. Hoewel ik Fries redelijk kan lezen, spreken en schrijven doe ik het dus niet. Ik had een zooi vertalingen achtergelaten op enklave met de taalsjablonen zoals {{cs}}. Ik zie dat je ze allemaal vervangen hebt door de taalnamen (mijn complimenten voor ijver en zo). Er is op verschillende wikti's verschil van mening hierover. De Engelse doet het met vaste namen en niet sjablonen. De nl. juist weer wel met sjablonen. Het is een beetje een keuze: met sjablonen kun je makkelijk een zooi vertalingen van andere wikti's overnemen en daarom heb ik het op de Afrikaanse ook maar zo geregeld. Een nadeel is dat de sjablonen in verschillende talen anders gerangschikt moeten worden om de boel alfabetisch te krijgen. Persoonlijk vind ik het laatste niet zo'n probleem, maar dit is jullie wikti niet de mijne.

af:Gebruiker:Jcwf

[Een voorwoord: Ik moet bekennen dat ik noch Fries noch Nederlands spreek. Mijn moedertaal is het Engels. Ik ben beperkt tot boeken en automatische vertaling voor alle niet-Engelse briefwisselingen. Vergeef me daarom als dit bericht een robotachtig beetje schijnt.] Ik verkoos om Friesnaamvertalingen eerder dan te gebruiken sjablonen omdat de namen nog niet door de moderatoren van «Wikiwurdboek» zijn geprogrammeerd. Persoonlijk, verkies ik te gebruiken sjablonen omdat zij sparen veel tijd en zij minder opslaggeheugen vereisen. Het is waar dat de alfabetische orde van verschilt onder talen sjablonen, maar dit is ook waar van de volledig getypte namen. Wanneer de orde van namen in een lijst van vertalingen verschilt, ik vertrouw op dat een inheemse spreker de lijst zal zien en dan de orde zal het dienovereenkomstig alfabetiseren. Mijn hoop is dat door het creëren van meer Fries-literatuur beschikbaar aan zoveel mogelijk mensen er meer rente in de taal en de cultuur van Friesland zal zijn. Dank u voor uw waardering.—Skeelsjen 04.33, jan 24, 2006 (UTC)

Frysk

Op Frysk hawwe jo Noardfryske ekwivalinten opnaam. Dit is lykwols it Westerlauwerske WikiWurdboek. Binne jo fan doel in apart nivo oan te bringen foar de Fryske talen ûnderinoar? Of is dit in fersin?
At Frysk jo included North-Frisian equivalents. This, however, is the West-Frisian Wiktionary. Is it your intention to create a seperate level for just the Frisian language? Or was this a mistake? BTW., you might want to add to the top of your user page and discussion page that you don't understand Frisian or Dutch. Aliter 22.50, mai 19, 2006 (UTC)

• Huum düüwel bast dü? Dü läit pitjepåtj deeraw! Önj e jarste plåås, ik hääw din heelp ai nüsi. Twasche tou klåmers, hü maning spräken spreecht dü?
• Wa duvel bisto? Do slachst bûten dêrop! Yn 'e earste opslach, ik ha dyn help nit nedich. Tusken heakjes, hoefolle talen sprekt do?
• Wie voor de duivel ben jij? Jij schrijft onzin daarop! Eerst en vooral, ik heb je hulp niet nodig. Overigens, hoeveel talen sprekt jij?

Jê, i nô dat dis is de West-Frizjan Wiksjoneri! I bi nat dat dom! En no, it was NAT e mistæk dat i de Nordürn-Frizjan ekwivalents der püt; bikôs, je sî, der is nat e separat Wiksjoneri fur de Nordürn-Frizjan, so i tinkt dat i wold de Nordürn-Frizjan ekwivalents DER püt. Sins dej difür so mikel, oders mît wat it is dat's difürint betwijn de tû lîk te sî! Je bi de fürst persün te mæk e komplejnt bowt dat i püt dem, so i rêlij do nat nô wat te sêj. (-sjort pôz-) As fur mi, i rigret nat dat i dem der püt, fürdürlij, i wil dem der liev, dat's wâr dej bilong, dej do nat no wun bodder, so wi wil it at det liev! BDW, i kan tel dat Înglisj is nat jer mudder tong…—Skeelsjen 20.14, mai 29, 2006 (UTC)

• Wat dat wat jo yn it earst skriuwe oangiet, dêr haw ik wat ferkeard sjoen. Ik tocht dat jo skreaun hienen dat jo gjin Frysk koenen, en dat jo dit alles allinnich mar delskreaun hienen dat oaren der letter wat mei dwaan koenen. Mar ik sjoch no dat dat allinnich gie oer de folchoarders fan de talen by de oersettings.
• Ik bin Meidogger:Aliter. Ik bin meast dwaande op de Fryske Wikipedy. Ik bin ek ien fan de earst-ynskreaune meidoggers op it WikiWurdboek, en op myn meidoggersside hjir hat oant no ta altiten it fersyk stien my te warskôgjen at der hjir wier wat skreaun waard, om't ik dit ek in moai projekt fyn.
• (Hoefolle talen? Dat wit ik net sa krekt. In stikmannich. It grutste probleem is dat myn oersetten net bêst is. Sa't jo al oanjouwe is dan altiten de boarnetaal noch werom te finen yn de doeltaal.)
• Ik woe nimmen foar dom útmeitsje; ik haw allinnich myn redenaasje opboud; ik woe net begjinne mei "Werom stean hjir ekwivalinten?" Ik woe krekt oanjaan dat it gjin krityk wie, mar dat ik graach de eftergrûn witte woe.
• Ja, op wurdnivo binne der grutte ferskillen. (Ik nim oan, jo witte, der binne sels grutte ferskillen yn de Noardfryske dialekten. Bygelyks, ien dy't net better wist soe tinke kinne dat it dialekt dat jo skriuwe neat oars wie as Nederlânsk, frij wurdlik oerset nei it Ingelsk, en dan delskreaun mei oare lûden.) De ferskate Fryske talen binne no ien kear oars ûntwikkele. Wy hawwe disse diskusje ek hân op de Fryske Wikipedy, en ta einbeslút is dêr keazen foar ientalich Westerlauwersk. Op it stuit wurdt der hjir socht om minsken dy't mei de oare twa Fryske talen begjinne wolle. Ik nim oan, jo soenen soks ek oanfreegje kinne, at jo wier in Noardfrysk WikiWurdboek begjinne woenen.

Hoe ek, ik begryp no wêrom at dizze ekwivalinten net gewoan oan de oersettings tafoege binne. Tank foar de útlis. Werom nei it bewurkjen; dat is wat de wiki waakse lit.

• Regarding the first of all-part: I guess I misread something: I read you as writing that you didn't understand Frisian and were only writing this so it would later be available to others. But I now see that this refers to the language order in the translations only.
• I'm Meidogger:Aliter. I'm mostly active on the Frisian Wikipedia. I'm also one of the first users to register with the Frisian Wiktionary and my user page has, until recently, always had the request to warn me when there were actual contributions here, since I like this project as well.
• (How many languages? I don't know. Several. The biggest problem is that my translations are less than perfect. As you mention, the source language can always be recognized in the target language.)
• I had no intention to call anyone "dumb"; I've presented my argument that way to avoid starting with: "What are these equivalents doing here?" The intent was to make clear this was not criticism, but that I merely wanted to know the reason.
• Yes, on the word level there are significant differences. (I expect, you know there even are significant differences between seperate North-Frisian dialects. For example, someone who didn't know any better might think the dialect you're writing is nothing more than Dutch, translated rather literally to English, and then spelt with other vowels.) The seperate Frisian languages simply happened to develop differently. We've had this discussion on the Frisian Wikipedia in the past, and eventually we decided on a monolingual West-Frisian Wikipedia. Currently people to write for the other two Frisian languages are sought here . I assume you could make a similar request if you really wanted to start a North-Frisian Wiktionary.

Be that as it may, thanks for explaining why these equivalents are not added to the translations. Back to editing; that's what makes a wiki grow. Aliter 00.18, mai 30, 2006 (UTC)

Tige tank foar dyn ferduldigens mei myn sarkasme. It spyt my foar wêzend sabitsich! Ik wol no op Ingelsk skriuwe…

My reason for including North Frisian is that it differs so much from West Frisian (henceforth WF), yet it is so closely related. And I thought it would be nice to include North Frisian examples in the WF Wikiwurdboek, since I didn't think that a North Frisian edition of Wiktionary was due anytime soon. After all, the number of entries here (in the WFW) is quite scant. For the past few years, I have been gathering vocabulary in WF and am very intrigued by the language in general but also by the fact that it is more closely related to English than it is to Dutch; in fact, the two form the Anglo-Frisian stem of the West-Germanic branch. It's a very fascinating language, Frisian. And it's quite sad when one considers how neglected it is in comparison to its linguistic brother, English. Just out of curiosity, is Frisian your native language? If not, that's okay: English is my native language. If so, then I am thrilled to be corresponding with someone who actually speaks Frisian! They seem so rare! While my brother was living in the Netherlands working as a nightclub pianist, he heard a song (on the radio?) that was sung in Frisian. He liked it and asked his Dutch friends what the lyrics were. They replied, "Oh, we have no idea what they say up there [in Friesland]!" That surprised him a bit. As did it me when he told me about the incident. I must admit, I haven't heard much Frisian spoken or sung. But I am eager to know more.

Another reason for the inclusion of NF words in the WFW is that I have a moderately sized WF > NF lexicon and thought that incorporating translations from it here would be informative.

Again, if you do speak (Western) Frisian as your mother tongue, please give some native input here. As for my own knowledge of WF, I could use all the help I can get. I'm missing some vocabulary items in my personal WF dictionary and maybe you could help me a little… :-)—Skeelsjen 17.41, 19 okt 2006 (UTC)

• Only two Frisian songs ever reached the Top 10 in The Netherlands. One band, De Kast - In Nije Dei (A New Day) - and one duo, Twaris - Wêr bisto (Where are you). If your brother does recall that much, then finding the lyrics should be easy.
• I actually speak Frisian. Some 600.000 speakers and a world population of 6.000.000.000 - that makes a Frisian speaker a rarity of one in 10.000.
• For the gaps in your knowledge the wish-list might be of some use. As in the Wikipedias, we should try to put the explanations on the content pages, to make them available to as wide an audience as possible.
• As an update: there's now a Saterfrisian test-wikipedia, and voting is underway to make it a full-scale one.
• Welcome back, Aliter 21.46, 19 okt 2006 (UTC)

Market

Hoi Skeelsjen

Jo binne de meast aktyfste persoan op it wikiwurdboek. Derom stel ik de fraach mar oan jo. Is dit sa de bedoeling by de side market. Of moat er nog mear gebeure. Alfest bedankt

Hello Skeelsjen. You are the most active person on the wikiwurdboek. That’s why I ask you the following questing. Is the word market good. Or is there anything else I should do. Thank you Sinne 19 jan 2007, 20.43 (UTC)

Elk bytsje in protte helpt! Tige tank!

Every little bit helps alot! Thanks!—Skeelsjen 27 jan 2007, 04.53 (UTC)

Berjocht / Noeditsection?

Hi, Skeelsjen.

> Mijn moedertaal is het Engels.

Phew! That's a welcome development! :-)

You haven't been too active for a while, but I still wanted to let you know that I was experimenting with a couple changes to your (really great!) entry templates. Some, like this one Berjocht:-subst- include the "no edit section" tag in their code. I find it convenient to be able to click "bywurkje seksje" and limit what's on the screen when I want to edit the noun portion of a long definition. Plus I make fewer mistakes that way. Now that the entries are getting longer and more complicated (a very good thing! yes?), I'll be changing some things like that. Let me know if you have any objections.

On reflection, I seem to remember reading that there used to be some sort of bug that took users to the edit screen for the template when they meant to edit the article where the tempate was included? Maybe that's why the tag is there. Anyway if so, whatever it was did finally get fixed.

Thanks! Winter (User:Snakesteuben 19 apr 2008, 05.57 (UTC))

Hello! Forgive my overdue reply! I'm glad that you are helping to improve the Frisian Wiktionary! It's good to hear that the "edit template" conflict has been resolved. Keep doing good things!—Skeelsjen 19 des 2008, 22.11 (UTC)