Wikiwurdboek:Buorren/argyf/2

Werom nei de argyfyndeks.

Sealtersk opmaak

this I like this version. Very good, can youre bot do this? Sonne 17 mai 2008, 17.11 (UTC)

Sure can. Let's wait and see what The Almighty has to say on the matter. ;-) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 17 mai 2008, 18.28 (UTC))

I'd say that anyone who would like to be called "The Almighty" has too big an ego.

Pick one: Would you prefer "fearless leader," "Apotheosis," "the Avatar," or simply "God"? (I'm in a mood today... ;-) ) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 18 mai 2008, 13.42 (UTC))

Regarding the other Frisian languages: I too like the style Winter designed for them, though it might not be equally effective in some of the other skins. I don't think we need to tell the reader on each page that Sealtersk is an "(Oare Fryske taal)", though. I've done four tests here, first just without the extra text, then with a single block, then with the block inside the translation section, and finally with just translation entries in the block.

I have no strong preference at this time on format. As a preliminary matter, I take it that some sort of special treatment is generally regarded as a good idea though? Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 18 mai 2008, 13.42 (UTC))

Ik soe sizze dat ien dy't graach "De Almachtige" neamd wurdt in te grut ego hat.

Wat de oare Fryske talen oanbelanget: Ik mei ek wol oer de styl dy't Winter derfoar betocht hat, hoewol it net by elts wiki-oansjen like doelmjittich wêze sil. Ik leau lykwols net dat de lêzer op alle siden ferlet hat fan de útlis dat Sealtersk in "(Oare Fryske taal)" is. Ik haw hjir fjouwer proefsiden makke, earst mei sûnder de ekstra tekst, dan mei ien blok, dan mei it blok yn de seksje mei oersettings, en de lêste mei allinnich oersettingsyngongen yn it blok. Aliter 17 mai 2008, 20.58 (UTC)

Ik haw, no, gjin grutte foarkar oan de formaat. Der is in oerienstimming oer in besûnder seksje, of foardrachten, of presintaasje, wat soarte, fan de oere Fryske talen? Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 18 mai 2008, 13.42 (UTC))

Me, I don't mind them being a bit special, but not overly so. My fourth example, as styled translation entries, works for me.

Ik haw der sels gjin probleem mei at hja wat bysûnder behannele wurde, mar leaver net te folle. Myn fjirde foarbyld, as oersettingsyngongen mei styl, dat is my genôch. Aliter 18 mai 2008, 20.12 (UTC)

("Pick one", he says. It's not that easy, you know. Well ... I think "Aliter" might be a nice one. Aliter) (Aw, that's no fun at all. :-) ) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 10.13 (UTC))

Wikiwurdboek Taalsiden

Just a thought...

So, Aliter, you like these, huh? I find them ever so slightly annoying myself. The wordlist category is right at the bottom of the page if somebody wants it. The wikipedia site is linked in the article--which is seems to me is where most anyone would want to start, short definition and then progress to long. But maybe it's just me.

Ik mei eins net sa oer de taalsiden. De wurdlist is gau beskikber ûnder it wurd. Ik tink dat in brûker mar better direkt nei it wiktionary artikel gean kin. Sûnder it ekstra klik. Mar ik wit net...

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 10.13 (UTC))

Dy wurdlist is net altiten fluch beskikber. Sjoch nei in side as ja. Foar Amuzgo, dy wurdlist is fier fuort. En yn dit gefal binne der gjin oare rubriken as taallisten, mar is freget sa dochs al tiid om de goede te finen. Mar: Nee, taalsiden binne net ideaal. Faaks koenen hja op de rubryksiden opnaam wurde?

That word list is not always easily available: Look at a page as ja. For Amuzgo, that word list is quite a way off. And in this case there are no other categories, just language lists, yet it still takes time to pick the right one. But: No, language pages are not ideal. Maybe they could be included on the category pages? Aliter 20 mai 2008, 20.38 (UTC)

Convention for flagging offensive words?

My paper dictionaries, particularly foreign language dictionaries, use a standard convention to alert a user that a word or phrase is potentially offensive. Several use the abbreviation "col" for colloquial, followed by some number of exclamation points.

I'll give some examples here. Since, for obvious reasons, some might not be familiar with the English words, I'll make a guess at Dutch versions. I don't know any of these words in Frysk. For instance, my German dictionary marks "arse" (German Arsch, not sure about Dutch, maybe corresponds to "kont") as col! (potentially offensive) and "fuck" (Dutch "neuken" maybe) as col!! (highly offensive). With better granularity, one might mark some words that aren't marked at all in my dictionaries, say, "bitch" ([1] as a verb meaning complain, and [2] as a noun: [a] a derogatory term, particularly for a woman who complains and nags, is mean-spirited, or makes life generally unpleasant, or [b] a subservient (sexual connotation generally) man or woman--can be used as an analogy "made him my bitch" as a synonym for "I totally bested him.") as col!, arse as col!! and fuck as col!!!. (Not "col" exactly of course, since I assume that's not a valid Frysk word.)

I assume others think such a convention would be a good idea? I'm not sure how/if other sites do it, but I can poke around if you want. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 20 mai 2008, 12.29 (UTC))

---

On reread, that's too dense to make a lot of sense. Trying again, the short version, what do you think of having templates something like col! col!! (and maybe also col!!!) that insert some sort of standard warning into an Opmerkings section, alerting the reader that the word is potentially offensive? Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 20 mai 2008, 17.17 (UTC))

Probably, try a few pages to see if we're missing something. For one thing, it shouldn't blanket the entire word, as a word could be derogatory in only one usage: "bitch - female dog" is acceptable.

Aliter 24 mai 2008, 00.00 (UTC)

Argyf of Skiednis

Dizze side wurdt te lang. Meitsje wy in argyf fan de side, dat âldere diskusjes streekrjocht tagonklik bliuwe? As litte wy dy allinnich yn de skiednis fuortbestean, dat it minder plak ynnimt? Aliter 21 mai 2008, 23.26 (UTC)

There is now also one of those cute little "add section" plus signs (+) with the tabbies at the top. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 13.20 (UTC))

Bisten en Planten redux

Aliter, please give me a credible citation for all that stuff you're on about here. A reference on Dutch will do of course; it doesn't have to be Frysk per se which I imagine is harder to find. I'd like to write this up for posting on other projects, but I can't verify the existence of any such rule (nothing beyond the normal "encyclopaedia convention" common to all western languages anyway) and they'll require me to. Thanks. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 13.18 (UTC))

Never mind. Oops, I had totally missed the bit about no Frisian rule dictating the capital letter treatment. If it's not a standard language rule, we should not do anything like that a dictionary of course. Sorry I obviously blew something way out of proportion! Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 17.51 (UTC))

"though ... it actually makes sense based on the existing rules." There's a very solid rule in Frisian that in anything serving as a name each word gets a capital, and that all other words merely get a capital at the start of a sentence. What does not have a set rule is whether the description of a species can in one instance be a name and in another instance be something else. But both forms with and without Capital are used, so the alternative would be to declare them complete synonims and duplicate the pages. I'll see whether the Fryske Akademy has an opinion on this. Aliter 24 mai 2008, 00.00 (UTC)

I've had the time to think through your proposal regarding Latin names, and I see a rather unwanted consequence. If we declare the Latin names to be native, that means each such page gets an entry for every single language, each stating that its meaning is the same Frisian name.

Ik haw de tiid hân en tink jo útstel oer Latynske nammen troch, en ik sjoch in gefolch dat wy eins net hawwe wolle. At wy de Latynske nammen eigen ferklearje, dan betsjut dat dat sa'n side yngongen krijt foar alle talen, dy't allegear oanjouwe dat de betsjutting deselde Fryske namme is. Aliter 24 mai 2008, 00.00 (UTC)

Kin men net ien titel gelyk oan "yntertaal" (translingual) brûke? Lykas foar ôfkoartings foar gemyske eleminten of ôfmjitten? Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 25 mai 2008, 04.00 (UTC))

Ja, mar wat is dan noch it foardiel boppe de Latynske nammen as Latynsk te hawwen? Aliter 25 mai 2008, 22.32 (UTC)

Bots en oersettings

If somebody will translate this line from Wynterfrysk to real Frysk, I'll have it committed to the code.

• English = Robot: Cosmetic changes
• Wynterfrysk = Bot: Skoanmeitsjende feroarings

Also, I'd like to thank our White Knight Malafaya once again for helping us. I'm not sure some of you were aware that Malafaya had absolutely nothing to do with the bots and our problems, but came in completely out of nowhere to help us. (Or maybe you did know. I wouldn't have taken quite the same tone with a pure Good Samaritan in my own messages, but perhaps that's just your way.)

Thanks. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 13.31 (UTC))

In theory, that would be "kosmetyske feroarings", but I don't think I've ever seen the wurd used. A better translation might be possible with more context. As a bot should always be made to tell what it does, I'm not quite sure when it's going to say this.

Yn teory soe "Cosmetic changes" ferfryske wurde kinne as "kosmetyske feroarings", mar ik leau net dat ik dat ea sjoen haw. In bettere oersetting wie faaks mûglik mei mear ferbân. Om't in bot altiten sa ynsteld wurde moat dat er oanjout wat at er docht, bin ik der net wis fan hoenear at er dit sizze moat. Aliter 24 mai 2008, 21.59 (UTC)

Ja, ik haw "kosmetysk" earste tocht; mar mei google haw ik net sjoen. (Der is Cosmetica; ik haw wat fan Doutzen Kroes lêzen...) Cosmetic_changes.py is de bot dat ik haw brûkt mei oanfraach, om de ynterwiki keppelings ynoarder te meitsjen. It programma makket ek lytse feroarings, spaasjes, ensfh. The code comments say (paraphrased, but close): Can do slight modifications to a wiki page source code such that the code looks cleaner ... not intended to change the visual appearance of the page. (Mar, de grûn foar de died, de folchoarder fan de "oare talen" keppelings--dat liket sichtber, sa't ik it sjoch. *shrug*) Is dat genôch ferbân, of noch net dúdlik? Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 25 mai 2008, 03.50 (UTC))

De interwiki.py oarderet de ynterwiki ferkeard, mar cosmetic_changes.py koe yndie brûkt wurde om it wer ynoarder te meitsjen. No, letterlik wie it:

     msg_standalone = { 'fy': u'Bot: Kosmetyske feroarings',}
     msg_append =     { 'fy': u'; kosmetyske feroarings',}

Foar msg_append, at der mear stiet, nimt dat al in protte romte. Eat as

     msg_append =     { 'fy': u'; tekstopmaak',}

wie dan koarter.

Aliter 25 mai 2008, 22.32 (UTC)

Botter

I freegje tastimming om Botter rinne te litten op it Wikiwurdboek, at it sa útkomt. Net ien fernimt der fierders wat fan; it nimt allinnich wat tsjinnertiid om in rige siden troch te jaan oan myn kompjûter. Mar ik haw it doe de tiid frege op de Wikipedy, dat ik freegje it hjir ek. Aliter 25 mai 2008, 22.32 (UTC)

Natuerlik mei dat. Hoe mear bots hjirre hoe better. Makket jo bot ek nije siden? Sonne 26 mai 2008, 04.45 (UTC)

Dat hie der efkes by moatten: User:Botter. Aliter 26 mai 2008, 22.11 (UTC)

A.j.w. sjoch de merry-go-round. (Der binne hjir gjin rjochtenútfurders. Dus men kin it lokaal net dwaan.) Snakesteuben 30 aug 2008, 09.10 (UTC)

Note for stewards: No objections were made. (The contributor who commented basically says, I think: Sure it may. The more bots the better.) Snakesteuben 30 aug 2008, 09.10 (UTC)

(Ja, dy oersetting is goed. Aliter)

I didn't actually request Bot status here, as that's only an issue with Bots that make a lot of edits. Currently Botter doesn't normally make any edits; the permission I asked for was just to be allowed to run it. After all, for all its digital reality, the wiki is still a human habitat, so it's not self-evident that automatons are welcome there. But if it's granted, it would be an incentive to develop the editor function.
(Snakesteuben: hat bot-status oanfrege foar Botter.) Dit wie eins net in oafraach foar bot-status, om't dat allinnich fan belang is foar bots dy't in protte oanpassings dogge. Sa't it no is docht Botter ornaris gjin oanpassings; de tastimming dy't ik frege wie allinnich om tastimming om him rinne te litten. Perslot, in wiki mei dan in digitale werklikens wêze, mar it is dochs it libbensgebiet fan minsken, da't it sprekt net fansels dat automaten dêr wolkom binne. Mar at it tawiisd wurdt, dan is dat fansels al in reden om in oanpassings-funksje ta te foegjen. Aliter 30 aug 2008, 20.50 (UTC)

Re Bot status [is] only an issue with Bots that make a lot of edits.

Aliter, I'm not sure I agree. Even if edit volume isn't great enough to swamp the recent changes list, isn't it useful knowing which edits were made by automated processes? I hope we get more activity and contributors here one day, so patrolling features and whatnot become relevant. (But, no, I didn't realise that under its current config, it normally made no edits.)

Still, I'm glad I inavertently provided incentive for You to develop an editing function--something obviously good for the project. :-) Snakesteuben 2 sep 2008, 20.00 (UTC)

I'm sure you do agree. After all, I asked permission for Botter to run, and it's called "Bot"-ter, for exactly that reason: That people are aware there's a bot active. The disadvantege of Bot Status is that by default the actions of the Bot are filtered out, which means peope don't nornally know what edits are made by such bots, or even that any edits were made. This only makes sense if it's outweighed by the advantage of not flooding the Recent Changes list. Hence, bot status is only an issue with Bots that make a lot of edits. Aliter 2 sep 2008, 20.59 (UTC)

(Wiisbegear oer it bot-wêzen. Aliter 2 sep 2008, 20.59 (UTC))

Fan Wiktionary:Bots

Botoanfragen

User:SpaceBirdyBot

Hello, I am running my Bot User:SpaceBirdyBot as interwikibot on is.wikt (and de,es,pt,ga,af,fo,nah,scn,nl,sv,ro) lately because not all links are catched by the current active bots there. If You are interested I can set my bot to run here also.

I am using SVN pywikipedia (latest) and run it using

interwiki.py -wiktionary -autonomous -force -noauto -nobacklink -noshownew -neverlink:fur,ilo,nov,sco

• Botmaster: is:Notandi:Spacebirdy
• Bot's name:User:SpaceBirdyBot
• List of bot flags on other Wiktionarys:af,co,ca,oc,da,de,el,es,it,is,pt,ga,gd,af,fo,nah,scn,nl,sv,ro,yi,zh-min-nan,...
• Purpose:interwiki
• Technical details:svn pywikipediabot, latest versions

Best regards, --fûgel _(:> )=| 18 jun 2008, 21.01 (UTC)

Done from Meta.--Jusjih 29 jun 2008, 21.03 (UTC)

Meidogger:VolkovBot

I request botstatus for meidogger VolkovBot too, he is operated by w:ru:User:Volkov and running on many wiktionaries and wikipediae. He uses pywikipedia too afaik, also svn, latest versions.

Best regards, --fûgel _(:> )=| 18 jun 2008, 21.04 (UTC)

I support the request for VolkovBot. It is the best and most experienced interwiktionary bot around. Carsrac 19 jun 2008, 20.15 (UTC)

I oppose the request for VolkovBot. The operator doesn't communicate. The fact that it isn't him requesting bot status is an example.

Ik bin der op tsjin dat WolkovBot op it stuit botstatus krijt. De bestjoerder kommunisearret net. Dat er net sels botstatus oanfreget is in foarbyld. Aliter 12 aug 2008, 03.40 (UTC)

Request for botflag for Meidogger:CarsracBot

I think there is room for other interwiki bot's. Vooral één gecontroleerd door iemand welke redelijk het nederlands machtig is en fries kan lezen. Carsrac 19 jun 2008, 20.15 (UTC)

Is dit al as net in oanfraach foar botstatus? Aliter 13 aug 2008, 02.50 (UTC)

Bot policy

Hello. To facilitate steward granting of bot access, I suggest implementing the standard bot policy on this wiki. This will involve creating a redirect to this page from Project:Bot policy, and adding a line at the top noting that it is used here. In particular, this policy allows automatic acceptance of known interlanguage linking bots (if this page says that is acceptable), which form the vast majority of such requests.

Please read the text at m:Bot policy before commenting. If you object, please say so; it will be implemented in one week if there is no objection, since it is particularly written to streamline bot requests on wikis with little or no community interested in bot access requests. Carsrac 20 jun 2008, 06.54 (UTC)

Done. Pathoschild

Ik bin der op tsjin. It is makliker om op alle Frysktalige projekten deselde regels oan te hâlden. En at it simmer is yn Fryslân hälde wy ek wat langere terminen oan, om't net eltsenien altiten oanwêzich is.

En graach krekt as by de Fryske Wikipedy it oerlis op dizze oerlisside, net op de Wikiwurdboeksiden. Aliter 12 aug 2008, 03.40 (UTC)

Ik tink: Aliter, graach feroarje as Jo wolle (as Jo net al sa dien hawwe). Alles goed. (Hjir en ek WB, as Jo wolle.)

Dien. Aliter 2 sep 2008, 20.59 (UTC)

En in oare fraach, oer globale bots: [1] No hawwe wij opt-in status. (Se automatysk hawwe botstatus-flagge.) Is dit okee, of miskien net? Persoanlik fine ik goed sa. Sa kinne wij de wizigings fan bots altyd filtere, lykas RobotGMwikt, dy't folle romte ynnimt op koartlyn feroare.

Snakesteuben 2 sep 2008, 19.32 (UTC)

Neffens de Fryske botpolityk moat eltse bot him altiten earst sjen litte, en moat der botstatus oanfrege wurde. Dat is fansels in gefal fan mjitte. Us wiki's binne te lyts om wurk te dwaan foar bots, dat de lju dy't wier fine dat der mear bots by moatte sille it wurk dwaan moatte.

According to the Frisian bot policy every bot should always be demonstrated first, and botstatus has to be requested. That's, of course, a scale issue. Our wiki's are too small to put in effort for the bots, so those who truly feel that more bots are needed here will have to make the effort themselves. Aliter 2 sep 2008, 20.59 (UTC)

Siden wiskje

Wy hawwe der noch gjin systeem foar, leau'k, mar

• syket en sykest binne oerstallich. Aliter 13 aug 2008, 02.50 (UTC)
• rûnnen - ferfongen troch krekte stavering Aliter 16 aug 2008, 00.34 (UTC)
• socke - ferfongen troch ferzje mei haadletter. Aliter 30 aug 2008, 00.36 (UTC)

Dien. Snakesteuben 30 aug 2008, 08.50 (UTC)

Tank Aliter 30 aug 2008, 20.50 (UTC)

Behearder

Ik tink... dat Jo behearder-status hawwe soenen. Jo binne yntelliginter as ik. :-) Mar ik (persoanlik) sil gjin wurk foar Jo meitsje! Mar dat is ek better (wer tink ik), eins om lyts húswurk (as Jo sizze "keep [things] tidy") te meitsjen, en mooglik, lytse flaters te reparearjen--sa't it Jo it bêste past. Mei ik a.j.w. nei de "merry-go-round" gean, om dizze oanfraach te meitsjen? Tanke, Snakesteuben 30 aug 2008, 08.50 (UTC)

It liket der op dat eltsenien fynt dat ik behearder wurde moat. Thogo hie dat ek al útsteld. Goed, freechje dan mar at dat regele wurde kin. Mar dan faaks net op dy side: De titel treft wol, mar it is neffens my allinnich foar Meta. Ik leau dat oanfragen foar funksjes op oare wiki's by de prachtige titel "m:RfP" wêze moatte.

It seems everybody agrees that I should become an admin. Thogo proposed the same thing, a few days ago. Alright, go ahead and ask whether it can be arranged. But maybe not on that page: The title is appropriate, but I think it's only intended for Meta. I'd say that request for functions on other wikis should go under the wonderful title of "m:RfP". Aliter 30 aug 2008, 20.50 (UTC)

Yes, Meta:Requests for adminship is for to become a Meta sysop. Other requests are handled on RfP. Hi Snakesteuben btw. ;) Best regards, --Thogo 30 aug 2008, 21.07 (UTC)

Tank. Aliter 6 sep 2008, 01.17 (UTC)

Javascript

Ik haw foar no yn MediaWiki:Common.js en MediaWiki:Monobook.js de Citations útskeakele en noch wat spul dat wy neffens my net hawwe.

• Is der immen dy't in reden hat om it wer ta te foegjen?
• Is der immen dy't wit hokfoar saken wy noch mear net brûke?

Aliter 8 sep 2008, 18.52 (UTC)

Spitich. Myn flater. Tank foar Jo korreksjes. Wer, sa't ik it sjok, dit is Jo side. As Jo wolle, sa alles wurde moatte soenen. Earnstich. Snakesteuben 10 okt 2008, 10.24 (UTC)

Taalkoade for wittenskiplike termen

Ik haw de ISO 639-2 minsken frege at dy in standertoplossing wisten foar wittenskiplike nammen út de biology, ôfkoartings foar skiekundige elimnten en datsoarte. Dat wisten hja lykwols ek net, dat wy moatte it sels betinke. In q-koade dan mar?
I asked the ISO 639-2 people whether they knew a standard solution for scientific names from biology, abbreviations from chemistry and that sort of stuff. They didn't know one, though, so we'll have to come up with something ourselves. A q-code, maybe? Aliter 27 okt 2008, 01.50 (UTC)

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Oersettings

In anonym hat in tal idioomoersettings tafoegd. Dy haw ik wer fuorthelle, om't hja hast allegear ferkeard wienen, en om't de opmaak poermin wie. Is dit te dwaan, en as dat sa is, hoe moat de opmaak dan wêze? Aliter 15 sep 2010, 22.47 (UTC)