Meidogger oerlis:Sonne

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Hi Sonne

Ik had wat vertalingen van zwaar geconverteerd voor nl. en heb ze ook hier neergezet. Wellicht dat je wat meer talen erbij kunt genereren? vr. g. nl:Gebruiker:Jcwf

het zou kunnen zijn dat wij iso 639-3 gebruiken met 3 letters terwijl jullii iso 639-2 hebben. Op nl hebben we bijv {{fr}} neergezet op sjabloon:fra dan werkt het allebei.

Het voordeel van -3 is dat het completer is het nadeel is dat de wiki's grotendeels -2 gebruiken bijv fy.wikipedia niet fry.wikipedia.


Hi Sonne,

Op de Engelse wiktionary zijn ze bezig alle Friestalige lemma's om te dopen naar West Frisian. Lijkt me geen goed idee, gezien de dialecten in Noord-Holland en zo, maar ik ben dus geen Fries. Het is misschien goed als jullie aan de discussie meedoen?

nl:Gebruiker:Jcwf 27 mrt 2008, 17.01 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Yes, I'd be happy to help out. And thanks for the nice greeting.[bewurkje]

Thank you for the extremely nice note. I especially appreciate the answers to my implied questions re: translation. (Corrections are always appreciated, too.)

Yes, I'd be more than happy to volunteer as an administrator. And thanks for the vote of confidence. But please don't expect me to be completely fluent in complex template parser functions yet. I'm learning, but I've been active on wiktiapedinaria for only a little over a month. I started playing with Frysk at about the same time. But you've seen my limitations there. Gheheh.

Snakesteuben 30 mrt 2008, 09.49 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

P.S. Couldn't help being nosy. I fear I may be one of the chief culprits of "geen goed idee" above. West Frisian was the only term I've heard in English. Plus, with the Seelterfräiske word being Wäästfräisk, it didn't occur to me to question my assumption. Oeps. Well, I'm glad you and s/he are on it. Undoing any damage on the English site would be easy. So if I was wrong, no worries.

Snakesteuben 30 mrt 2008, 09.49 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Translation and Grammar check?[bewurkje]

Hi, Sonne,

Would you be kind enough to reality-check my translation of grammar terms in this template, and, ahem, the verb forms in my sample conjugation?

Thanks! And thanks for volunteering to take my braindead questions in this area. I'll try not to pester you more than necessary.

Winterxx 31 mrt 2008, 14.00 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Student? No not really... Except, well, self-teaching ? I'm not sure why, except, well I've read a bit about the language preservation effort and I started to feel sorry for the researchers and the lack of funding. The idea of the closest living language to English just sort of withering and dying away? Well, I didn't like that.

Plus, there's the fact that one of my favourite science-fiction characters just happens to come from a place called "New/Nieuw Friesland." In fact, this login name is based in part on that character.

Sorry it took me a while to answer! I had expected a lot to change on the pages, and there were so few, I didn't notice them, and thought you hadn't gotten around to it, or perhaps that it was too big a job to undertake! Snakesteuben 9 apr 2008, 14.49 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Hey, Sonne. Oh, yes, I know there are over 350.000 native speakers! I was mainly referring to things like this. Here, the Frisian Academy is very tactful and nice about it, when they say, basically: Our budget is 1/10 of the Dutch budget. So, we will focus on data collection, transcription, and digitisation. For part of the corpus, we hope to be able to affix tags for part of speech information. We will make the entire language corpus available to researchers.

But I read the implications/subtext as: "unlike our Dutch counterparts, as soon as we finish gathering the data, we'll be out of money. Somebody else will have to analyse it."

Winterxx Snakesteuben 10 apr 2008, 00.43 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Explanation of Äi edit:[bewurkje]

Oeps! Looks like I just crossed one of your edits here: Äi

I didn't notice you were on the list, or the nature of your edit, or I would have discussed it with you first. But I just confirmed, here's the discussion with my guru, as I thought, that all Sealterfrysk nouns are capitalised, just like in German.

Take care, Snakesteuben 14 apr 2008, 20.22 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

No prob at all![bewurkje]

I'll be entering some stuff soon, and I'll take care of it. :-)

I forgot to answer your other question... No I'm not. I understand candidates are are taken more seriously if they are nominated by a different person, and not by themselves.

Winterxx (User:Snakesteuben 16 apr 2008, 14.28 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Wow. Seems you weren't pulling my leg about the lack of admins. There's one sysop listed Meidogger:DerHexer, and he has no contributions except two sessions editing his user page. There's nobody listed under bureaucrats, overseers, etc. See: Special:Listusers/sysop and the other categories in the pull-down list.

But I might not know everywhere to look. There's got to be somebody, right? Snakesteuben 17 apr 2008, 17.39 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]


From my guru, seems our entry for "Bunkeler" is slightly wrong.

Mühle Määlne (ju); {die Bunkeler, ju Büüle, ju Büülkiste, ju Kröihaspel, die Lairee, die Soller, dät Sprüüt}. This means Määlne is the sfr. word for Mühle or wfr. mûne (mole). The words between { } do belong to a mill. So Bunkeler is a wheel in the mill and not the mill itself, as "Wurden.." says.

I would fix it myself, but I'm afraid I don't know the word for "wheel of a mill."


Also, I poked around a little more, and maybe there really is no admin. E.g., I saw where someone's privileges expired here. :-\

Winterxx Snakesteuben 19 apr 2008, 09.14 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]


Groet út Noard-Amearika! I have put out a general distress call here. I'll be notifying anybody who's been at all active over here to comment.

Would you do me a favour and edit my text directly if I made a mistake in the short 2-sentence intro? Ik winskje dy in moaie dei. :-) Winter (User:Snakesteuben 22 apr 2008, 15.19 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

My Bot (Winterbot) vs. the simple heading templates[bewurkje]

Groetjes, Sonne!

The long explanation is on the bot's user page under the NOEDITSECTION discussion. The short version, which after typing it, didn't turn out shorter--but maybe it's clearer and less techy?

1. Templates like that (the ones that contain a few characters between equals signs) are what keep the "Bywurkje Seksje" bits from showing up. If you look they all contain a tag called NOEDITSECTION. That disables section editing for the entire article. (**) From the user standpoint, long entries are harder to edit, they're more likely to make mistakes, some browsers have a hard time handling edit windows over a certain size, and they take forfreakingever to load! I'm told it also affects server performance in general, too, but I haven't verified that.

2. From the point of the maintenance software: If we use that kind of template, then the only thing that shows up in the text is {{-fy-}} rather than the standard headings between equals signs. Then various automated tools get confused. That's why the project-wide VolkoBot (the one that automatically adds other language links, so every other wikt's entry of, e.g., "flinter" magically shows up in the left pane) has garbaged a couple entries recently. It also screws up various statistics gathering routines that are run over all the projects. And I know you want credit for your edits. ;-)

The English site has a total ban on NOEDITSECTION, as well as templates that obscure the section headings for both these reasons.

So, all that stuff in 1 and 2 is the price of having a template that lets you type {{-fy-}} instead of ==Frysk==. (Most important to me, personally, is editing sections.) On balance, I believe the convenience gained outweighs the convenience lost, don't you think? (I am planning to put some serious inflection templates up akin to what they have on the English site. That will automatically insert categories, and automatically generate regular plurals, etc. Hopefully, I'll get back in your good graces after that! Soon! But I want to get the !&*#*#$ entries editable first.)

(**) (If you're wondering: They do that because otherwise, hitting bywurke seksje takes you outside of the article to the TEMPLATE editing screen. Wha???)

Did any of that make sense, or am I still talking Greek?

Winterx Snakesteuben 27 apr 2008, 15.59 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

P.S. Lots of proposed temporary workarounds.

1. You can continue using the old template--it's still up. And please do if you're using the other parameters beyond just the basic {{-fy-}}.

2. Alternatively, I just threw something up. If you want to avoid the problems for new entries you create for the time being, you can type:


That will do everything the old -fy- did, without causing any of the problems. (We can still edit sections and whatnot.) Costs you 5 keystrokes... 4 if you count the shift key on my keyboard. ;-)

3. Or, you can just say sod it, and type in the ==Frysk== and forget the category. I can have the bot clean up after you there, too. :-) (We're not losing the categories, of course, with the bot edits.)

But really, I can just clean up after you next time they dump the database if you want to keep doing it the old way.

Oh, and about newbies, you and I are the only two who have created pages here in the past MONTH! Hopefully that will change. :-/

Snakesteuben 27 apr 2008, 16.21 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

dogs entry[bewurkje]

Hi, Sonne. Before I go changing it, is there a good reason for the weird capitalisation in this entry, where it says: # the dogs: in hÛnerin - hurddraverij foar hûnnen." Thanks! Winterxx Snakesteuben 29 apr 2008, 08.08 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

--- Yeah, I figured dogs was just a mistake, but I wanted to check first. :-)

I'd be willing to ask for temporary (3-month) admin status for the two of us, together. Would you like that?

Another thing I'd like to do at your convenience--work together on creating a standard format for entries. Put up a help document with examples, etc. What do you think of that?


P.S. If you're entering a bunch of words from a list, you could stick them in a text file with a bit of formatting, and I could just 'bot them up, you know... Winterxx

Admin request: dien.

Well, jeepers, that was fast.[bewurkje]

From the PTB's:

I guess the wiki is yet too small to get permanent sysops, so I granted you both temp sysopship for 3 months for any kind of .js and .css maintenance and deleting/blocking and all this kind of stuff. Expiring 29 Jul 2008 Just come here some days before that and drop a note that you want to have it extended (if you want that).

Snakesteuben 29 apr 2008, 11.16 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Formatting question 1[bewurkje]

I've noticed that generally Noardfrysk translations are entered as a subheading at the part of speech level under the main entry. A few times that has been done with Sealterfrysk translations, too. I think that's confusing.

Sometimes the Noardfrysk is actually the same word, in which case I think it should be entered as a separate heading at the same level as the Frysk entry (with 2 ==).

When it's not, I know that the Frisian languages have a special relationship, but I'm wondering why other Frisian language translations shouldn't appear with the rest of the translations in the oersettings section? The German site puts Plaatdeutsch and other dialects in the translations section--those aren't even different languages. I think that makes more sense, but I could be persuaded otherwise. But... what do we do if a Frysk word has multiple parts of speech? Like it's a noun and a verb? How would we deal with the Noardfrysk entry then? More often than not, the Noardfrysk will have two separate words for the two parts of speech. I think that would be really confusing to anyone trying to reference it. (At very least, if we still want to list them like that, I guess we should bump the Noardfrysk entry down a level and put it at the level of Synonimen, so it could have a separate entry for each part of speech.)

Also, if we're going to treat Noardfrysk specially like that (which I hope we don't :-) ), I guess we should make it a policy to do the same with Sealterfrysk. I'm pretty sure Sealterfrysk is more closely related to Frysk than Noardfrysk is. And Sealterfrysk is far closer to being mutually comprehensible with Frysk than Noardfrysk is.

What do you think? Treat Noardfrysk and Sealterfrysk like the other languages, or no?


Winter's Entry questions are collecting here ;-)[bewurkje]

I added the gender to daai. It's neuter, right?

And I take it from the entry that another meaning of blom is flour (grain ground very fine) and not just flower like pretty growing things?

Check this out...[bewurkje]

How do you like the new collapsing oersettings bar for long entries? Example: Hindi :-)

-Winter (who else?)

And I think the new font sizes look tidier, too.

(If you can't see any difference and have no idea what I'm talking about here, do this:

Note: After saving, you may have to bypass your browser's cache to see the changes. Mozilla / Firefox / Safari: hold down Shift while clicking Reload, or press Ctrl-Shift-R (Cmd-Shift-R on Apple Mac); IE: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5; Konqueror:: simply click the Reload button, or press F5; Opera users may need to completely clear their cache in Tools→Preferences.)


It should be safe to play with the edit tools at the bottom of the screen now. I think I've cut out all the land mines. (There are still links not filled in, but they're red now, and even if you accidentally click them it shouldn't hurt anything--just throw an error.) I'll add more stuff back as I iron the bugs out.

Soon I'll put a new version of your beloved {{-fy-}} down there in the template section, so you can insert it with one mouse click. Then you won't be mad at me anymore, eh? :-D -Winter

OK, check it out. :-) Pick Berjochten in the window, see subst:fx and subst:enx? Just click those with your mouse and they'll do what the old -fy- and -en- did--as far as putting in the ==Language== header and Kategory. They won't take any parameters. And then the ones after the three dots? They do what the old header templates of the embedded name do. And that blank subst:? For any template that's not in the second list, type the name after the colon - like subst:-syn- or whatever, and it will work like the old template.

(You'll see it working in the preview screen, but the actual text won't appear until you save it. If you want to edit it after it's expanded--like to change English to Dútsk or something, just save it and pull it back up.)

If there are any other languages you want right away, let me know, and I'll do them. Otherwise, really, it's OK to keep using the old templates.

Oh, and you see under the Latyn/Roman pulldown? I tried to gather the Frysk letters conveniently on the left for people who don't have (or would rather not mess with) international keyboards/converters. Did I miss any?

Thanks, Winterx

New addition to the team[bewurkje]

Excellent. I'm glad you're on board, too. If you will go to the Behearders entry here, and second my support, I think we can shortcut this process. Probably get approval as soon as Kening has a chance to go ask for it.

Sometime today/tonight, I think I'll set up a page or two for discussing entry format and such things in one place, so everyone who's interested can be heard. And yes, I understood everything you said. Your English is better than you think, Petal. Winter (User:Snakesteuben 30 apr 2008, 04.35 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Sealterfrysk non-wiktionary[bewurkje]

(ancient message = new colour)

Aliter commented, very informatively, on my talk page, take a look.

Moin moin, Sonne!

About this: I don’t think there will ever be a North Frisian or a sealterfrisian wiktionary.

I want to let you know something. I made all the points you made, and more, to Pyt, the founder of the Seelter wikipedia. I asked him whether a wiktionary wouldn't be much more on point. He didn't think so. They're not particularly interested in starting a wiktionary, even though it would be easier since they've gone through the process once.

My premise here at the end of that paragraph is totally wrong, as Aliter points out over there.
Anyway, you know you won the bit about the compromise (which wasn't a compromise, since that was already the practice), but I was trying to come up with a less confusing format. I'll end up continuing that discussion over on Aliter's page, once I finish the demo I promised when we were both younger. :-) Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 22.41 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Furthermore, Pyt didn't seem overly impressed with our efforts here at this project. I think he has concluded that our entries under "Wurden yn it Sealterfrysk" came from his Sealter <--> Dútst Woudeliest here, but the person making the entries didn't do the best job in the world translating the Dútsk into Frysk. I'm sure if I culled the entries together into small batches and dumped them on his discussion page in a nice easy format, he'd oblige me and help correct the entries. But notably, he wasn't forthcoming/eager to help sua sponte. I've concluded, with some confidence, that he didn't think the accuracy of the info on our site was all that important. So, food for thought: How much extra effort do you think we should spend trying to "save" people whose spokesman doesn't think they need saving? As you know, there are only about 2.500 - 3.000 Seeltersk speakers in the world. Pyt is a teacher of the language; he's cited all over wikipedia in tons of languages. I think he's as knowledgeable, and in touch, as anyone in that group.

You might want to read my entire debate with Pyt on his talk page. My comments are here, just part "1)", below the horizontal line, down to 2). He answers in a separate entry immediately following on the same page. That's where he makes the comment about "Wurden yn it Sealterfrysk" being an incorrect reversal of the list cited above.

On the other hand, he seemed somewhat pleased with my idea to bot his (12.000-16.000 entry I think) wordlist up to the German wiktionary. That's on my todo list. (That's in the very last part of the same discussion, where I start writing really crappy Seelter.)

Fuul Gröitnis, Winterx (User:Snakesteuben 30 apr 2008, 16.58 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

So, as you can tell from my reaction, I completely agree with you in principle. I admit I was disappointed when I didn't "win" that argument above. ...

Hey, maybe you and I should head over to the incubator and start Sealterfrysk and Noardfrysk wiktionaries ourselves. If recent events are any indication, if we wait, nothing. But as soon as you and I take matters into our own hands, somebody will show up! What do you think, Petal? Gee, I can't seem to keep my mouth shut (or fingers quiet?) when I check a space. A compulsion to type more, somehow. ;-)

Fondly, Winter (Snakesteuben 1 mai 2008, 05.52 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

word list[bewurkje]

Hi, thanks for the list of German word translations. If you would like to have entries made out of them, please compile all the information that would be necessary to make an entry for each Dútsk word. That includes part of speech information--whether it's a noun/haadwurd, verb/tiidwurd, preposition/ferhâldingswurd, or whatever. Also include gender and plurals if applicable, and whatever information you would have to type in -- if you had to type it in. ;-) (You don't need to include any of that information for the Frysk words, just the German/Dútsk.) The column format you are using is fine, just be consistent with what information is in which column.

Also, please take another look at the list, and double check the accuracy. One thing I noticed with a split-second glance, all the German words are capitalised. German nouns are always capitalised. Other parts of speech are not. Words that are not always capitalised should be entered in Wikt in lower case.

Thanks, Winter. (User:Snakesteuben 1 mai 2008, 13.52 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Please read the discussion page attached to your oerlis:this_list. Since it took a couple hours to try to write, explain, and correct just the first 12 entries on your list, I'd appreciate it if you could wait and do it when you can focus on it. Thanks. -Winter

Re: list, Great work so far! Let me know if you have any questions, or when it's done! -Winter


Just so you don't panic. I have moved this list to your userspace. Otherwise, it shows up as an article, a definition for the term "this list." That's rather silly looking, don't you think? :-)

So it's at Meidogger:Sonne/this list

-Winter Snakesteuben 3 mai 2008, 03.06 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Er, BTW, wouldn't it be easier for you to feed me Dutch words rather than German words? -Winter


All the translations you entered for ferneamd are adjectives. And the way it's used on wikipedy it sure looks like an eigenskipswurd to me. Are you sure it's a haadwurd?

Thanks, Winterx (User:Snakesteuben 4 mai 2008, 02.10 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Sounds phenomenal! I'll look at it probably Monday... I've been stuck with a huge job on the English site. Feh. This site is MUCH more fun. For one thing, there's someone like you to talk to. :-) -Winter

Batch entry jobs[bewurkje]

Re: I hope you can make in all the words a hyperlink to the Frisian words.

The job was supposed to do that. Didn't it work? (I took your list and made an English to Frysk version. I'll hold off on submitting the job until I hear from you, though, in case there's a bug somewhere!) Winter Snakesteuben 6 mai 2008, 04.47 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

I've got another job running right now. Much faster now that you've told me there aren't any big bugs.

I had some questions though. Take a look here. Also I changed the part of speech to haadwurd. I don't believe most plants and animals are proper names, so I converted the entries to lower case. But I may have lower cased some that ARE proper names because I didn't know better. The entire list is on that page, so you can check that quickly.

If you remember, you might point me to the words that were off, for debugging purposes. Winter.

It just now finished! After a couple entries in a sample test run, I set the thing loose with the throttle cranked down to 5 seconds. (That means it's permitted to make up to 12 entries per minute--though it never goes at maximum speed because it has to wait for the server just like we do.) It still took an hour and nine minutes to run! HAHAHA!

I can't wait 'til our page count gets updated. I'll bet we're half way to the second tier (10,000 pages) mark! Wheee!!!

Yes, by all means, give me a new list. This is fun! :-D Winterxx

Say on your list of countries, are you sure about these entries?

Guinea Guyana 
Guinea-Bissau Guinee 
Guyana Guinee-Bissau 

I would have guessed Guyana was Guyana, Guinea was Guinee, and Guinea-Bissau was Guinee-Bissau.

Winter. Snakesteuben 6 mai 2008, 12.12 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

I'll be darned if I see any Frysk words that aren't hyperlinked in the bot entries. Except of course for entries like Singapore where the Frysk word was listed to be the same as the Sealterfrysk word. Even if the brackets are in the entry, of course it won't show up as a hyperlink, because you're already on the page! But maybe you fixed them all already. Winter 6 mai 2008, 12.47 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Glad to hear the bug was a false alarm. You had me a tad worried. :-)

I'm sure pictures can be added to entries with a bot. If I had a list with the exact file name and entries, or even a category, where every member of the category should get it, I could do that--as long as I made it the very first thing on the page. I'm sure it's possible to be more sophisticated than that, but to be honest with you, I don't immediately know how. Hey, you know when I started learning this stuff. About the same time I started learning your language, two months ago. ;-)

While I'm being honest, right now I'm a lot more jazzed about the concept of getting to the 10,000 mark than about cleaning up entries. You and I have doubled our content in the last month! Also, if we have more entries of various kinds, then we could possibly make more intelligent choices about how to pretty things up. And I'll have more models to think about how to bot a lot of it. You think? There'll always be time for clean-up.

I'm taking your wildlife list and making an English version. With the help of wikipedia and wikispecies, looks like I could make a good start at French and German, too. In the Frysk entries for each, I think we should have boxes like on the WP site for birds, animals, and plants. I'll make templates (actually, I think I already have one for plants.) That will give us a bit more pizazz.

If we made an accurate!, reasonably comprehensive multi-lingual field guide project, that could get this little wikt some serious international renown! There's a lot of inaccurate info on the Internet, as you know.

Yes I know your fondness for pictures. I was particularly amused by the one you (I think/assumed you) selected for alkohol. Gheheh!

Fondly, Winter 6 mai 2008, 16.10 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]


Wikipedia capitalises every entry, like an encyclopaedia (or a newspaper, or scholarly work, or book with chapters, etc.)

Wiktionary, like a dictionary, does not capitalise entries, unless the word described by the entry is actually capitalised.

Dictionaries do not capitalise entries, unless the word is actually capitalised, because the whole point of a dictionary is to convey that type of info to the user--spelling and whatnot. For the same reason, if a word is spelled with a capital letter in some contexts, and not in other contexts, then there will be two different entries--one for each context. Same thing if two different words are otherwise spelled the same way, except for capitalisation. Like Why (town in Arizona) or why (the common word). Same thing for abbreviations that mean entirely different things depending on whether one or more letters is capitalised, like Sa, the chemical element samarium in English, versus SA, surface to air, like a missile. They're not the same.

For the same reason, there should be no entry like "beifallssturm" in any wiktionary that redirects to the proper German word "Beifallssturm." That's because "beifallssturm" is NOT a proper spelling. The word doesn't exist, and words that don't exist don't belong in a dictionary! If it redirects, the user will think it IS a proper spelling, and we're just lazy, not typing the entry twice. (Redirects are a really crappy idea in general. The better practice is to enter the less common spelling separately as an "alternate spelling of" whatever the other word is.)

Make sense?

Winter 8 mai 2008, 08.19 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Meartal fan in ferlytsingswurd[bewurkje]

Ik sjoch, jo jouwe by yngongen fan ferlytsingswurden it meartal fan it stamwurd. Is dat mei sin? Aliter 9 mai 2008, 18.32 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

More on plants and animals[bewurkje]

Hi, Sonne,

There's (er, lots) more stuff over here now.

Duping the part that's most pertinent to your original question:

Take a look at this article in wikipedia w:Keningsearn. The title is capitalised, and the word "Keningsearn" is capitalised throughout, because they're discussing the characteristics of the species. But note this sentence where it talks about other animals collectively:
It iten fan de earn bestiit benammen út marmotten, hazzen en mûzen

On the rest: In short, I like what Aliter said about separate upper-case entries--referring to the species vs. the animal. And I've proposed how I think the upper case entry should look.

Winter 10 mai 2008, 04.46 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

P.S. Yes, it's better if you keep writing to me in English for right now. I have a lot of work to do to get us to the 10.000 mark. ;-) Still working on my own plant animal list, and I haven't gotten to your smaller list yet... Hopefully tonight.

Plus now, I'm working on a whole new user interface for redlink new entry creation screen. It's modelled on the German site. Your German might be better than mine, but basically, if you click on a redlink, or you search for a word that doesn't exist, that screen pops up. You can click on "Substantiv" to create a new German noun entry, in either a basic, minimal, stripped down form (Vereinfachte), or a more comprehensive format with more headings (Erweiterte). Further down, you can create a foreign language entry. It then preloads a canned entry, along with a customised help screen template for the making new entries. If you feel like it, why don't you click on a couple. Nifty, huh?

If you have no idea what I'm talking about and don't see anything special: Check this. If you have a preference language on that site, it has to be set to German.

Anyway, back to the original thought: It takes me a long time to read Frysk. Wolst wol leauwe dat ik gjin wurdboek haw??? (Is that sentence correct?) When I catch up, then maybe. Winter 10 mai 2008, 05.13 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Ik haw de Bisten en Planten nei Wikiwurdboek:Buorren#Bisten_en_planten oerbrocht, om't it eat is mei wiki-brede gefolchen, wat it risseltaat ek wêze sil, dat at wy it dan op ien plak hawwe, dan is it letter better werom te finen. Aliter 13 mai 2008, 23.25 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Your latest list is done[bewurkje]

Are you sure zelfreinigend (self-cleaning I think) and thermisch (termysk/thermal) aren't adjectives?

Winter 12 mai 2008, 06.34 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]


I don't think I've yet really told you how incredibly excellent your plant and animal list is. It's amazingly impressive work, some of the best entries I've seen on any wikt. Accuracy is excellent. Also, particularly now that we can expand the entries, much of the information would be difficult, if not impossible, to find in print much less on the internet.

I don't think anyone has yet made a more valuable contribution here. I was truly blown away.

Winter 13 mai 2008, 05.19 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

smile.gif Thanks for showing me that. W.

Latynske nammen[bewurkje]

Ik sjoch jo bringe trochferwizings oan fan de Latynske nammen nei de Fryske nammen. No is it sa dat wy earder krekt alle trochferwizings ferfongen hawwe troch yngongen, om't ferskillende wurden foar in wurdboek no ien kear net itselde binne, ek al is de betsjutting itselde. Sa binne de aparte yngongen foar ferlytsingswurden en meartallen der ek kaam, om't bygelyks it wurd "liuwke" net itselde is as it wurd "liuw". Moat dan de namme "Panthera leo", dy't net itselde is as de namme "Liuw", ek net in side apart hawwe? Aliter 14 mai 2008, 20.02 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]


Wie dat in reaksje op #Meartal fan in ferlytsingswurd of op #Latynske nammen.
Aliter <glimket>

Ik bin der net wis fan at jo dy fraach fan doe sjoen hawwe, of dat dy weirekke is tusken al it oerlis, dat ik skriuw hjir noch wat by. (Ik wit net at jo it sjoen hawwe, mar at men twa berjochten hat, dan liket de keppeling nei de feroarings allinnich de lêste te jaan.) Aliter 18 mai 2008, 20.01 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

The latest...[bewurkje]

Yeah, I like the French taxobox, too. That's why I stuck that reminder up to myself. What do you mean "the one we are using right now"? I just today got the !#$*@"!O&$ Dutch one working right! :-P And I've stuck it in, what, two entries?

Yes, I saw the latest list. It's a small one (meaning few entries share the same language and part of speech), so I didn't want to fire up all my conversion scripts yet. My French is (comparatively) quite good, so I figured I could add to it when I get a chance. So I haven't snagged it yet. Feel free to open it back up if you're so inclined. Or not--new list is fine, too.

> "Can you find more Americans who will put so much in to the Frisian Wiktionary like you?"

Of course not, Petal. I'm a strange bird, as you well know by now. ;-)

Winter (Userpage:Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 20.39 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

God has spoken[bewurkje]

Hi, Sonne,

And hi, Aliter, I assume you don't need a courtesy pointer, since you're hanging out here. :-) (I'll drop you one if you don't acknowledge.)

I see you've started using the taxobox, since there are now three links to it. But our master might veto the idea, so let's quit using it so we don't have to unravel too much. OK? Winter (Userpage:Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 21.51 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

List 3[bewurkje]

I've looked at the French portion, and we've got lots of issues to discuss, very much akin to the German list.

Then there's stuff that I, personally, find disappointing. It's not totally wrong, but it duplicates the crappy info out of random translation sites like that crappy Webster's, freelang, etc. Like "mear" translated as "davantage." Yep, even the French wikt has the reverse entry. And, yes, in most sentences in both languages using each word, the word translates as "more." (Mais en français, il y en a quelques autres possibilités...) But, for one thing, unlike the Germanic languages' mear/mehr/meer/more, davantage can never be used with a complement. That should be glossed in comments, and examples should be given, the way any paper dictionary that costs more than 15 Euros would do.

With all the talent I've seen come and go on this site, I was really hoping we could do better.

Sorry, I'm ranting. I guess I should just shut up and run the bot on the stuff where the part of speech matches and the words are in the ballpark--which is about 20% it looks like. But I'm frustrated. We did such good work together recently, and I really hoped we could stick to our respective strengths and rise above the one-line "definition" mediocrity of the normal internet "translation dictionary."

Well, whatever. I'll look at this again tomorrow and mark up some of the stuff that totally doesn't parse.

Snakesteuben 15 mai 2008, 06.58 (UTC)Reply[beäntwurdzje]

You know what?

How do you say miepen (Dutch) and bitch (English) in Frysk? I really want and need to know that. So please answer. Really.

Myn ekskuzen, Sonne.

Where do I get off thinking I have some sort of extra stake in this project? I don't. If you want something botted, it should be botted. Full stop. You're senior to me, ferchrissakes! I'm not a gatekeeper or censor here; I certainly haven't been appointed to that role.

I took 4 years of Latin in high school, but I'd still have to use a book, so I'm not going to check the Latin at all. They're going up as is.

As for the French, I'll make my best guess on the parts of speech where I can tell they're amiss. I'll document my changes on the list. If I really have no clue, I'll note that on the list and leave it out. Otherwise, they're going up, too.

I'm sorry I copped such an attitude. It really was uncalled for. In this short time, I've come to value your friendship, a heck of a lot more than this silly website. I hope you'll accept my apologies and this olive branch here.

Time to go run some conversion scripts for some wurden yn it Latynsk... ;-) Don't forget my requests. Miepen and bitch. :-)

Fondly, Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 17 mai 2008, 13.46 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

The Latin words are in. You're right, they were better than the French. And I was pleasantly surprised that I remembered a bit more from my 4 years of high school than I thought I would. I made a few tweaks--mostly swapping around parts of speech. They're noted on the list page.

I've made some comments on the French words. Some were kind of funny. I've got to give up the big computer now, but I'll bot most of them in later, with the changes I made, tonight. Sod it. We can clean it up later. Meaning, I can clean them up later when I manage to learn your language halfway competently. Gheheh.

Miepen is kind of like Yiddish kvetch, which you probably don't know either. It's complaining and griping about stuff, but it has a connotation of making a big deal about trivialities, squawking about nothing important. It can also, but doesn't have to I don't think, imply that the person is actually complaining about something that isn't the real issue. For obvious reasons, it is more often used to describe female behaviour. ;-)

I'm a bit sorry to hear you had nothing better to do than this silly stuff during your spring vacation. ;-) But maybe you're a nerd like I was in college (I'm assuming that's what your vacation was from. ??)

About the format of entries, I guess from now on we should start discussing that on the Wikiwurdboek:Buorren. User number 1 seems to suggest that.

Type to you later, Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 17 mai 2008, 18.28 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Bot job--picked it up 10 minutes ago[bewurkje]

Great list, Petal! I'm about to let it loose. I just skimmed it and didn't look too closely. Ran the conversion macro, seems to have worked... And it's a long one, so I've knocked the bot's putthrottle down to 5 seconds. Gheheh. Hope the format was halfway consistent. (Don't worry, if not, there's always the emergency stop; I'd just have to scramble a bit. ;-) ... Gee, and I thought I finally had you calling me Winter. :-( )

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 09.02 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

All done. With just one glitch where there were spaces instead of a tab and I didn't catch it. :-)

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 09.33 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]

Heads up![bewurkje]

I'll answer later. For now, a quick heads up. If you see any goofiness, it might be this person reincarnating under a new name/IP. I just got to ban my first user! Impersonating the founder of wikipedia (purported to ban me indefinitely, gheheh) and vandalised my page. I guess we're on the RADAR screen for some of the nuts now. Ah well, I'm now starting to see the virtues of the anonymity some of us are trying so hard to shed. ;-) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 20 mai 2008, 10.04 (UTC))Reply[beäntwurdzje]


Hello Sonne, Your temporary sysop status expired, please feel free to prolong it, if You still need it. Best regards, --fûgel (:> )=|